Great Thinkers

» PhiloProf - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

All,

I would like to hear from you about your knowing as it relates to beliefs.

William

-- posted by PhiloProf

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» Renee Blixt - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

In response to Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY? posted by PhiloProf:

The only beliefs that I, or any one else can know, are ones that are directly around them, or have been proven by science. I say "belief" in science because many people don't quite understand it, so they must trust what the scientists say or write. Would that be belief and knowledge put together? As in, I believe what Stephen Hawking tells me?

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» ghulkman - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

A "belief" is something that correlates with
each person's own "individual truth" ... which
is NOT universal.
A "fact" is PROVEN & IS universal.
When I was 13 years old & played golf ... I
entered an ADULT putting competition & beat
ALL the juniors & adults entered in that
particular competition. I then went home with
my trophy & told my Dad (remember, I'm 13 years
old)..... "Dad, I'm the BEST putter in the WORLD"
And ..... I've got to tell you that at the age of
13 years old ..... I really BELIEVED that !!!!
Of course ..... that was just my own personal
belief (or individual truth).... certainly not
a FACT.
It just goes to show how so many different people
can believe in so many different things ... because to each different person it really IS
their own "individual truth".
And ..... although some of us my view them as
"wacky" , "strange" .... or maybe a little "off"..
Can we really say that they are either "right"
or "wrong" in their belief??????

-- posted by ghulkman

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» PhiloProf - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

In response to Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY? posted by ghulkman:

ghulkman,

What you experienced at 13 and we all do it at some time.

Let me tell you a story a friend of mine who worked at a toy store told me.
When I was the manager of a toy store and was approached by a customer looking for a gift/toy for their child or grandchild it never failed to happen. "What?" I asked. Well the plot goes like this.
Manager: "How can I help you?"
Customer: "I am looking for a toy/game."
Manager: "What age is the child?"
Customer: "He is ##."
Manager: "Great! I will help you find an age appropriate toy/game."
Customer: "Thank you but I must tell you OUR child is above average."

My friend kept count, he was a stats major, and more than an average # of people gave a similar statement to this one.

My point, and I do have one, is that just because you believe it does not make it a truth and yes statistically I can prove that what you believe is wrong or cannot be proven. Also just because you believe something does not make it a truth. A truth as you defined is not a truth but a misconception of the word.

Lets look at your golf game.
Premise 1: I play golf.
Premise 2: I won a tournament.
Therefore: I'm the best putter in the world.

Your argument in invalid due to the scope of your reality. Kinda like calling the winners of a North America only game "World Champions". If you do not measure all the variables and cannot repeat it then it is not a Fact or is not True. Just because you wish it to be true does not make true. It actually a delusion, while okay for a 13 year old ot think they are the best in the world, or a child believing in fairy tales. It IS harmful to force others to believe it too.
Take a look at Truth Tables, Tautologies, Fallacies you might find them interesting.

Philoprof

-- posted by PhiloProf

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» ghulkman - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

I agree with everything you have said....
But at the time (When I was 13 years old)...
I really DID believe I was the BEST putter
in the world. And there is obviously no
valid reason or "logic" to that "belief" at
the time..... BUT... I still believed it!!!!
Now .... let's roll the clock forward to
present day life.
I'm a professional radio announcer & have
been for almost 32 years. Yet, everyday
I hear people on the radio who I "believe"
I am "superior" to. And, I can list a number
of reasons WHY .... based on past experience,
performance (ratings), etc. etc. etc. In other
words .... valid reasons & logic.
Yet it's my "belief" ..... not necessarily
yours or anyone else's.
Yet ..... there is still no way you ...(or
anyone else) will change that "belief".
So ..... is the premise (sp) still the same??
From the time I was 13 until present time???
Isn't a belief really just an individual truth.

-- posted by ghulkman

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» PhiloProf - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

In response to Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY? posted by ghulkman:

ghulkman,

Thank you for your response. As a college teacher I hear the same things that you mention. When I teach critical thinking it amazes me how many students do not know how to think but sure know how to believe.

I do not try to change someone's beliefs. But if my child, and I have a few, believes in things that are incorrect I try and teach them logic and decision making so they can understand the WHY behind things not and not do them 'just because'.
It seems to me that society today gives equal weight to 'feelings' than to 'facts'. We tell people that it is okay to 'believe' different things, and while I agree, the basic facts remain the same. People just disregard facts, because they do now 'believe' it. There are millions of people that follow astrology, even though there is NO scientific proof behind it. Ask an someone who follows astrology how the position of the constellations is different today than it was when this pseudo-science was started.
Let's think about astorlogy in a different light.
Couldn't we consider astrology as a form of bigotry? There are people that put weight on Astrologers 'revelations'
----
In a civilized society we deplore all systems that judge individuals by sex, skin color, religion, national origin, or other accidents of birth. Yet astrologers boast that they can evaluate people based on another accident of birth - the positions of celestial objects. Isn't refusing to date a Leo or hire a Virgo as bad as refusing to date a Catholic or hire a black person?
This example shows how someone "believing' in something can effect others.
Sorry for the ranting hope it makes sense. :-)

-- posted by PhiloProf

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» ghulkman - Do you have a belief that you "know". If yes then WHY?

As a college professor I have great admiration
and respect for your viewpoint & thoughts...
mainly because they come from education &
knowledge. I will continue posting on "Great
Thinkers" because .... as I believe you said..
"Thinking is Hard" .... and I certainly AGREE
with that assessment.
I will say.... in closing .... that I would
much rather be a person who responds with
knowledge, facts, and logic .... rather than
emotion.
Keep-up your enlightening posts as I certainly
appreciate them!!!

-- posted by ghulkman

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» pink101 - Critical Thinking?

.
Critical thinking?
.
That which is able to consider other than what one believes to be truthful just in case one might be wrong?
.
Thinking could be considered so much tissue being activated by an electrochemical process of the brain.
.
An example that points in this direction is that the thinker doesn't have to compose what they are going to think before they think it.
.
Do you take that into consideration?
.

-- posted by pink101

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